Curse

Bryant Again · Sep 29, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

All I can say is: Sweet. I have a whole list of names that could use a re-portin' : )

The Goldenwolf · Sep 29, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Flu, I understand your concerns. I even appreciate what you're saying. But in the end, the /report system is necessary to make the game a better place for everyone. In general, if you're reported a few times, you're not likely to get any action on your account. If you're reported a lot, but it's clear from the reports that it's a concerted effort (harassment) by a group, again, I feel sure you'll be safe. You can always appeal an account action to Support. But in the end, honestly, the system will be good for the game, and the game will be better for the system.

May I ask that you give it a few days, even a week, and see how things shake out? First of all, we'll like make some small modifications, based on player feedback. Secondly, a few days or a week will give players a better view of how the system works and how much it improves the game. If it is found that people are getting blocked unjustly, we'll definitely change it. I say we all take a look in a few days, and thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Nice to hear something Gaile

And well puts everyones minds at rest a little bit. The system has been abused already by some people though. I've got reported for leeching for reporting someone else for leeching when someone else reported the same person as I. I also doubt saying 'oh so now you decide to move' is abusive or anything like that either so I dunno. Just hope that the logs are clearly explained and stuff like that

~The Goldenwolf~

arcady · Sep 30, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

I can't talk about the news or the weather or what I think should change in one aspect or another because that might insult someone? I think that society needs to stop covering themselves in a protective bubble. If we don't talk about things and learn from each other's experiences and opinions, we'll become hate mongers.

It's a context issue.

And a game is not the right context for some topics - particularly those completely outside the scope of that game.

If you don't have time to discuss the election or the inner workings of criminal law or the Pope or the war in wherever or you and your significant other's intimate activities elsewhere, that does not make this game the proper forum for it. Make the time for discussing those issues in the places where their discussion is proper.

This is game, yes it is a social atmosphere, but it is still a game. And the people in it are there to play that game, and discuss commonalities they have with each other which fit the context of that game.

I love to talk politics, religion, law, art, and so on as well myself - but I don't choose Kamedan or Lion's Arch as the place to do it. If I could only find the time to do one or the other, talk those subject or play this game, then I would re-budget my time and pick which of the two I wanted to do more.

-Loki- · Sep 30, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

First of all, we'll like make some small modifications, based on player feedback.

I recall the same thing being said about Observer mode. The first change was adding Hall of Heroes as a permanent observable match, which took over 6 months to add.

Gaile Gray · Sep 30, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Could I please have your concise feedback on the new report system? As you're aware, this is the first of what we believe will be a few versions of the system, and we're eager to hear from you. The design team will be getting your feedback by reading and through the Community Summary. But in order to give them the best possible level of detail, could you please keep the comments positive and as brief as possible, while not leaving off details, of course.

Incidentally, thanks for your reports of gold sellers through the system. We've been able to block a significant number of those non-contributors, and we appreciate the help.

We look forward to your input on the system as a whole. Thanks.

william1975 · Sep 30, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

System works well in AB, I have had to report one person for suspected leeching, for about 4 mins they did not move. once reported by myself and a few others they moved sporadically out the main gate, but continued to stand for extended periods of time.

My worry with this is that they may have had connectivity problems and were rubberbanding, as in the previous fight myself and my wife suffered it for 3 or 4 mins. The difference is we informed the other players, while this player was totally noncommunicative. The worry is if you are innocent but still get dishonour will you be blocked from playing?

mdp · Sep 30, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

I too had an incident where I was reported as a leecher when I was actually experiencing the so-called "rubberbanding" bug that sometimes occurs at the opening of an AB match. When I expressed my indignation and tried to explain what happened I was threatened by another player, "careful or we'll report you again for abuse." Needless to say, I felted just a little violated. Furthermore, the number of other threats like this that I witnessed in chat over the span of four AB rounds was staggering. No doubt, I would have witnessed many more but I logged off in disgust after the conclusion of the fourth round. After witness such rampant threats by people who clearly know that they can abuse this system, I cannot help but feel that I have to watch every move I make in the game now.

The element of paranoia that DCS has introduced to the game is undeniable as even my guild leader is asking us to please refrain from reporting fellow guild mates for silly infractions. Moreover, I find the fact that Anet has deemed it necessary to introduce a tattle-tail system to the game just plain embarrassing. I realize that the rationale for creating the DCS was prevent to some of the bad apples from preventing others from having fun. The trouble with it is that there is a different crop of bad apples out there who can, have, and will continue to abuse this system by making silly reports against honest players similar to the ones mentions throughout this threat. While leeching is not fair to the other players in the match, it is more unfair when honest players are punished by because a few impatient or easily influenced players now have the power.

**** By the way, in my guild reporting guild mates is from today on considered a kickable offense. For the good to the community and in the interest of good sportsmanship and discouraging abusive behavior I urge all of you guild leaders and officers reading this to effect similar rules and I would further I would urge you all to discourage you members (without being abusive yourselves, of course) from stooping to the level of tattle-tailing on anyone except to report infractions that are also against the law (harassment, racism, etc.) Keep the stupid stuff in the guild. ****

In my opinion, it is infantile behavior when PLAYERS (I'm not talking about Anet now) may now invoke a mob mentality in order to rat on other players for ruining their day (or just making them mildly irritated as the case probably is). People don't always act honorably and YES it's not fair, but it's life. So perhaps there are some players out there who leech in PvP arenas and some players who quit rather than play out a losing match and maybe there's some competitive jawing taking place amongst some sore winners and sore losers. BIG DEAL. Personally, I find it interesting that that of all the offenses it is possible to commit in GW the ones I just mentioned are among the least harmful but seem to cause the most upset. The grown up thing to do when one crosses paths with another player who beyond any doubt commits one of the afore mentioned infractions is to just LET IT GO and keep playing. Guild Wars IS only a game, after all.

The game is no longer as much fun to play now that the DCS is in place because the most immature and impatient people playing the game now hold sway. Is is possible for the victim of a bogus report to counter-report the players who reported him/her for abusing the system before any inconvenience takes place? Unless I've missed something the answer is "no" because allowing players such a recourse would likely create an endless spiral of counter-reporting and counter-counter-reporting. The bottom line is that this system ultimately has had a detrimental effect on the community, not only because of the rampant abuse that it permits, but also because it encourages a behavior that is infantile and ultimately is different brand of anti-social behavior. The very existence of the DCS is insulting to us the players, but based on Gaile Gray and Andrew Patrick's testimony I suspect that Anet will stick to their guns on this and not reverse this mistake. Clearly, Anet has inadvertently given the impression that they value the bad apple players over the honest ones. Therefore, I will hold off on purchasing any more installments of the GW saga until it has been proven that the DCS is good for the game and I am proven wrong. If you think I'm over reacting, consider this. There was already a avenue for reporting dishonorable players before now and honest players could be reasonable certain of never being victimized by it. Not so anymore. It makes no difference if even one false report is made against an honest player. Honest players should not be falsely branded as anything else under any circumstances as they may now be. Period.

***I would really appreciate it if any respondents to this thread do so in civil and suitable manner rather than the immature mudslinging and pointedly insulting speech that I see so often on forums. Examples of suitable responses may be found in a few of the postings of SotiCoto, The Raven, GovernmentFlu, and Gaile Gray just to name a few***

Kakumei · Sep 30, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

To contribute, I haven't tested it too much, myself--I've merely done a few sessions of RA, and I've neither had to report someone nor been reported, though people threatened it. I'm not sure why people hate Monks so much.

yarddog · Sep 30, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

i think the system has been working well at the moment, but i was reported for being a "leech" in one AB, i was experiiencing a connection problem. i havent used it yet, but i truly believe alot of people are just "trigger" happy and you better hope you dont have a "lag" moment when entering AB or you will be reported.

Graphik Desine · Sep 30, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

i think reporting system in AB and TA/RA is great. i actually said "yes!" when i read the update from thursday. i see myself as an "honorable player" and don't give up until the party gets sent back to town. then go in again! those who intentionally leave games to "find better ones because they are on an underdog or losing team" or just sit around waiting for the rest of the team to do the work should be punished, in a way, for making it harder on others to try to win. those who are newer to AB/TA/RA can find it difficult to move to the next area such as TA/HA (i remember having to help guildies a long time ago in TA having to win 5 straight so they could play HA--and them having a REAL hard time getting past RA to go to TA because everyone was just LEAVING!--frustrating, if you ask them). intentionally making life worse for others, is classified as punishable.

there could be the occasional team that could gang up on someone and /report a player for any random petty reason (not liking someone's play style for instance) or lagging out. hopefully, these types of things will be thrown out if the logs read that [said person] whispers a former teammate saying they lagged out due to some sort of internet failure. sometimes where internet failure is present, former teammates put that person on ignore, just assuming that person is a rager and won't take time to listen to that player's side of the story.

but then again, it takes half the team to report someone, and even so if one person can convince an entire team to report someone, dishonor points affect for a certain amount of pvp time, not permanent marks against account as an "account ban." which is understandable. as long as one is not banned for having internet failure, it's fine.

but i do have a couple valid questions, as i play all types of pve and pvp:

the website claims this /report teammate system is going on throughout AB/TA/RA because that is where the highest priority is with leechers and leavers---but can it also affect opposing teams in HA/GvG? such as "rank spiking"--"playing dirty" (such as possible hacking)? in all actuality, those who are playing "dishonorably" in HA/GvG should not keep playing and setting examples as if their behavior is acceptable, as this would put a huge dent in the "friendly but fair" atmosphere.

and PvE as well?--reporting spammers, bots, etc. in districts (takes x amount players for this to work?) and takes half the team to /report any nonsense (such as highly offensive racist language) during any party-related PvEing (missions/quest pug teams).

if the system is only available in AB/TA/RA it would seem that only the treatment is handled in one part, not all. if all are treated equally, then the whole game has been /report balanced.

thus creating some more keywords for reporting, such as "suspected hacking" or "botting" or whatnot. not just leeching or leaving...?

if there are more keywords required to report, let us know what the "extended list" or "master list" contains so we are able to hit these targets faster without having to create words that might not exist in /report database.

as a plus, this could also save time for all the people who have to take screenshots, and prepare a nice, precise, lengthy report on "ask a question" portion of the site. lol. i admit sometimes i have reported people and had to include so many details and screenshots, and found myself 15 minutes out of my game or real life duties...just to make sure our players are in-line...

if this was an all-around game /report system, this would save time trying to jump on a different computer to be able to send a screenshot thru my darn firewall too

but yes, to conclude: nice idea to start with! now keep goin! let us know what is changed in the end though, where in the game it has ended up affecting, and what master list of /report [name] (phrases) are in the end besides leech, leave

Captain Gerome · Sep 30, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

The system works well in AB and Factions areas. The Anet Staff shouldn’t listen to the whinges and flamers on these forums. People have been asking for this for ages and when Anet decides to bring in the system the whinges have been wanting they decide to whinge again. It’s a never ending circle with 80% of the idiots here.

I think they should have a report button in the menu instead of typing out /report all the time or have both. More report features can be implemented here is a good example from Runescape.

Keep up the good work and expand on the current system!

ellandra · Sep 30, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Meh i think the report system is an awesome idea but i know myself one of my guildies got reported for leeching the other day while running around an ab. My concern is just how much abuse people will get as a result of being wrongly reported. Call me paranoid but often guild teams go into ab, these are four people with good communication routes, say they spot someone the guild dislikes, would be easy for all four to report them. Howeever i do feel at the moment people are just getting a feel for the system, it's certainly a huge leap in the right direction and from what i've seen will act as an awesome deterrant toward anti social behaviour.

Terra Xin · Sep 30, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarddog

I think the system has been working well at the moment, but I was reported for being a "leech" in one AB, I was experiencing a connection problem. I haven't used it yet, but I truly believe a lot of people are just "trigger" happy and you better hope you don't have a "lag" moment when entering AB or you will be reported.

People will get over-zealous when it comes to reporting people. I think it would be good that, for leechers, you report them and then you guys send the leecher a random automated message, like "type '/noreport 1234' within the next ten seconds to stand down the reports of leeching you have against you" and then let everyone on their team know that the person stood down the accusation. The 1234 could be randomized to hinder the effect of automated bots. If they try to make a program to counter it they'd have to hack the client, which would be easier for Anet to detect... hopefully. :S

If you have someone purposely grieving this particular system (such as leeching but taking the time to type in the /noreport), then you could report them for grieving instead. But with this suggestion, there would be less mistaken occurrences.

Other than that, I think that the system is fine. You'll hear a few complaints on how unnecessary it is to have to stay if you have four monks on your team - for example. I read someones suggestion that if 3 of 4 people /resign, (or 7 of 8), then any of the party could leave without penalty. This would work nicely against possible leechers in HA, as well as the odd runner in RA also.

What does everyone else think?

Oh and the paranoia should be nothing, ellandra. You can only report people on your team.

(says the update)

Abedeus · Sep 30, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Pretty good, but this made people really dumb. Some people enjoyed going to RA just to leech/quit, so other people are mad. Guess what they do now? They play stupid builds, that are super-retarded, so either you quit, or you waste time playing with them. E/N Minion Master? Sure. W/Mo with Mending and (sic!) Balthazar's Spirit? Why not. I know, it's RANDOM arena. But if someone is on purpose bringing sucky build and he knows about it (like if he has 500k+ fb), it should be punished too...

Big_Iron · Sep 30, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

I love the new system. I would make one addition to the choices given, EULA violation. For example, I saw a person in LA trying to sell their account in Local Chat last night. I was about to report them, but EULA violation was not an option. I almost chose Spamming, but they really weren't.

Now that I think about it, EULA violation may be too broad, but you get my idea I hope.

Kashrlyyk · Sep 30, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Being accuser, judge and executioner at the same time? Major Fail.
There is a reason why modern society has abandoned that idea. Read up on it. Besides if you make it easier to get thrown out of the game, while being innocent, you have to make it easier to appeal for getting back in, which would increase your costs, and therefore you are not doing it, because the only reason to have an automated system, is to save money. Major Failure.

candyman_sb · Sep 30, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I haven't used the report system but one thing is sure, there are no leachers in AB. Maybe there are few sometimes but very rarely. I don't know about RA but ABs are a lot better.

So keep the system, don't remove it.

Kashrlyyk · Sep 30, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

And this: Information how the report function works would be useful. So there's automatical filter what messages get to human support team, which then decides what kind of action is taken. What kind of bans can automatical filter give and what are the conditions?

A little tip: Don´t listen to stupid people. Normaly stupid people want harder punishments for people they don´t like.

From: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...1&postcount=30

Fril Estelin · Sep 30, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

as you have a large portion of the team in collusion.

Interesting message, but it can be summed in the point above. Collusion is and always will be a problem for this kind of system. But thankfully and as someone mentioned before, Anet gave control to the community of the input system (reports) but the output is, at least partially, still under the control of Anet people (like GMs). So collusion can be detected. Same as harassing. As someone said before, this is not a fuly automated system (which would fail, human beings being good at bypassing mecanic rules ...).

But if, in the end, all reports come from this kind of person (may be because they're the only who think that the system is worth it, and in their case "fun"), then the system will simply collapse by himself and will have to be removed. Only if it positively contributes to the community, thanks for "normal" players reporting leavers and other bots, will the system stay (I guess).

Quote:

In fact now that good players can't leave when they have bad players on their team, they are more encouraged to abuse the report system.

Or maybe they should explain to "bad" players how to become "good" players? (from my understanding of it, it used to be the case when GW was still a "small" game ...)

Quote:

On top of this, the system it going to make actual reporting of players (for spamming ect, not reporting for dishonor points) far less effective. People are going to be reporting players for trivial matters. People will attempt to get players mass reported. Every quasi offensive utterance will be reported using the new /report. This will deluge the system with a lot of false reports and significantly increase the error in their player review system.

I think you're speculating here, if Anet introduced such a system, I believe (don't know for sure though) that they have some hints that it could work. Describing such horrible scenarios does not help at all (it may even become true because people start believing in it, self-fulfilling prophecies ...). As I said before about my tale of slashdot.org, people sometimes fear what they don't fully understand. (and who does fully understand the GW community, and by that I don't mean the thousands of people you may know ...)

Quote:

If it isn't clearly shown that the system is flawed you will have to deal with people abusing this system for at least 3 months once it gets implemented.

In addition post every single loop hole and flaw you can find in the system here. If you want things fixed wave the red flag for all to see.

First step towards the self-fulfilling prophecies: I have to modify my behavior to prove my point. My friends will soon do the same. And their friends too. And thus the conclusion of your reasoning will become true! But what if you hadn't modified your behavior in the first place? And if you hadn't tried to "influence" (for a lack of a better word) the community? Maybe it could have been a success...

It's so sad when a certain part of the community turns against the game. It's a game in the game, to try to "force" Anet into what the certain part of the community wants.

Fril Estelin · Sep 30, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Whoever told you that only did so because they want respect handed to them on a silver platter for no additional cost.
Respect, if wanted, must be earned.
If it isn't wanted.... no problem.
It certainly is NOT mandatory.

It is completely pointless to talk to you. You are not listening to any word of what people (not agreeing with you) are saying. It seems illogical that you are trying to make a point with this disrespectufl ign while not trying to understand the point people are making.

But I guess I'm not going to be understood so let's play it simple: did you ever loose one of YOUR baby to cot's death? (this is NOT, and never will be, what I'd wish to anyone, sincerely)